Curse

You can't see me · Mar 20, 2008, 05:39 AM // 05:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arv X

once again, /notsigned

Most of the ppl reading this thread are STILL missing the issue with removal of lootscaling. Inflation! it would destroy the economy! you think the economy is bad now? wait till you see how it is when everyone and their mother has 300k to spend on the leet weapon they want. Yeah it'll be SO awesome !!!1!1!1111!oneone

If you haven't noticed, that's already happened.

Scary · Mar 20, 2008, 05:44 AM // 05:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arv X

once again, /notsigned

Most of the ppl reading this thread are STILL missing the issue with removal of lootscaling. Inflation! it would destroy the economy! you think the economy is bad now? wait till you see how it is when everyone and their mother has 300k to spend on the leet weapon they want. Yeah it'll be SO awesome !!!1!1!1111!oneone

Must be the greatest nonsense I have ever read..

What weapons ar so expensive now ?? only the new skins, or the tormented ??
wich are down in prices in a very quick time with Ursan or by just let time to
past.
O yea FoW armor.. wasnt that so much more expensive before any LS. its just
the 3th of the price it was. Men I can come up with so many examples that
dropt the price after the LS.
LS will just give us more comon drops so there is no problem in that.

arcanemacabre · Mar 20, 2008, 05:51 AM // 05:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scary

Must be the greatest nonsense I have ever read..

What weapons ar so expensive now ?? only the new skins, or the tormented ??
wich are down in prices in a very quick time with Ursan or by just let time to
past.
O yea FoW armor.. wasnt that so much more expensive before any LS. its just
the 3th of the price it was. Men I can come up with so many examples that
dropt the price after the LS.
LS will just give us more comon drops so there is no problem in that.

You do realize that you're agreeing with him, right? Prices have dropped since LS - right. He's saying that if you remove LS, prices will go back up. More money coming in, and less rares as people farm areas with few rares and more common drops, means higher prices, period.

manitoba1073 · Mar 20, 2008, 06:06 AM // 06:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

You do realize that you're agreeing with him, right? Prices have dropped since LS - right. He's saying that if you remove LS, prices will go back up. More money coming in, and less rares as people farm areas with few rares and more common drops, means higher prices, period.

Thats the thing that most of the ones that want to keep LS in. They think prices will go back up magically but it wont. There will be a large increase of supply of everything if LS is removed. The one that does see what will happen is Malice. However from my point of view that would be a good thing anyways and is what Anet claims they want to acheive. A market where how much one has doesnt mean anything. Because of the supply will be so large that every rare will be dirt cheap regardless how much money people will have.

wetsparks · Mar 20, 2008, 06:08 AM // 06:08

/signed
get rid of that crap as fast as possible. rich people stayed rich, and it just made it harder for poor people to become rich. Like that set of 15k armor? To bad, before LS you could get money for that armor and materials by farming trolls for a weekend (I know, I bought my first set of 15k by doing it when jade was upwards of 800g per piece), now you have to play through some missions for 20th time, hope to get lucky, not get lucky and do it another 20 times to get the money for 15k armor.

Abedeus · Mar 20, 2008, 06:11 AM // 06:11

/signed

Real people are too lazy to farm on Hard Mode all day to get cash. Bots don't care. LS = botfest.

arcanemacabre · Mar 20, 2008, 06:23 AM // 06:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

Thats the thing that most of the ones that want to keep LS in. They think prices will go back up magically but it wont. There will be a large increase of supply of everything if LS is removed.

Magically? No. Gradually? Yes.

Think about it this way: most of the hardcore farmers either quit (or at least say they quit), or they have moved on to farming high-end areas and/or group farming high-end areas with Ursan. If LS is removed, many of those will realize they will make more money quicker by going back to their trolls/vermin/hydras/whatever they used to farm. This means fewer and fewer high-end items coming in to the game, and more gold generated by merchanting whites/blues/collectibles. These farmers will posses more money in general, while the supply of high-end rares go down.

No, this won't happen immediately, but it will happen. Eventually, the rarest items will skyrocket in price, as only the hardcore farmers will be able (and willing) to afford. While the average, casual player will be unable to compete unless they farm, too. Also, with more gold circulating, the prices for any player-traded good [that doesn't already have an NPC trader] would slowly rise. This means things like dyes and Ecto would probably remain the same, but minipets, weapon mods, sweets/alcohol/party items, etc. will increase.

So no, there won't be a "large increase of everything" as rares, dyes, rare materials, etc are not affected by LS right now. It would only increase things people merch right now.

Master Sword Keeper · Mar 20, 2008, 06:27 AM // 06:27

yes.... prices will go up. Therefore more money for players again and the economy will function like a well-oiled machine.

/signed.

remove LS period.

(unless you study business, dont say you know how a market works.)

Chevy · Mar 20, 2008, 07:01 AM // 07:01

If prices do go up and someone can't afford to buy the item that they are looking for, maybe they should go try and find the item by fighting for it. There you saved $X,000, and you got to play the game.

/signed

please remove LS

Burning Blade · Mar 20, 2008, 07:54 AM // 07:54

why is it problem if item price increases? Right now most of gold drops are <10K and take hours to sell --> no incentive to sell to other players. Before LS, my gold in inventory fluctuated regularly because I traded a lot with other players. I have not sold any golds in the past few months. If it's r9, I keep for myself for later use; if it's anything higher than that, it will directly go to merchants after I salvage all the useful mods.

So /signed to remove LS to bring back a functional economy.

Buzzer · Mar 20, 2008, 08:14 AM // 08:14

Personally I don't really care about this issue.

For the sake of the happiness of others though, I wouldn't mind seeing a reduction or removal of loot scaling. Not because I think loot scaling is bad, but to freshen the game up a bit.

Jade · Mar 20, 2008, 08:20 AM // 08:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

Sorry you are (Wrong). Static IP=always the same IP address, all the time.

Dynamic IP on the other hand is what you have (most of the time) when you're connected from an ISP, they assign dynamically an IP address each time you connect to them (i.e. when your modem is switched on).

RMT companies do not use this, but if their employees connect from the same internet cafe computers, it's almost the same. So they'll have to switch computers, which will be banned, until they run out of computers. And BAM! We win

Dynamic, that's the word I was lookin for, thanks for the clear up on that.

Fril Estelin · Mar 20, 2008, 08:27 AM // 08:27

I think that I'm almost ready to /unsign due to the number of times that the pro-sign (which I was, but for different reasons) mention farming. Removing LS may well help casual gamers have a more enjoyable gameplay experience, but it seems it would make a lot of middle-class players jump into the high-end economy too easily. Well, with so many explanations contradicting themselves, I'm no longer sure of what I understand

I've tried to sketch elements of the economics situation in rigorous terms but stopped mid-way because I was too confused. I wonder if this is a case of no one really being able to understand the consequences of this change because of so many variables?

Abedeus · Mar 20, 2008, 08:45 AM // 08:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trader of Secrets

/no sign

Lootscaling makes u farming in HM or in NM in a group.

I'll ignore bad grammar. I highlighted a very funny word.

So... If you don't have HM or you can't go in NM (you don't have Ursan).. Go to hell? Okay, nice. I wonder how new players will be able to get money. Don't tell me, they are going to farm. How? On NM you get 1/8 of normal drops, lol.

Scary · Mar 20, 2008, 08:53 AM // 08:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

Magically? No. Gradually? Yes.

Think about it this way: most of the hardcore farmers either quit (or at least say they quit), or they have moved on to farming high-end areas and/or group farming high-end areas with Ursan. If LS is removed, many of those will realize they will make more money quicker by going back to their trolls/vermin/hydras/whatever they used to farm. This means fewer and fewer high-end items coming in to the game, and more gold generated by merchanting whites/blues/collectibles. These farmers will posses more money in general, while the supply of high-end rares go down.

No, this won't happen immediately, but it will happen. Eventually, the rarest items will skyrocket in price, as only the hardcore farmers will be able (and willing) to afford. While the average, casual player will be unable to compete unless they farm, too. Also, with more gold circulating, the prices for any player-traded good [that doesn't already have an NPC trader] would slowly rise. This means things like dyes and Ecto would probably remain the same, but minipets, weapon mods, sweets/alcohol/party items, etc. will increase.

So no, there won't be a "large increase of everything" as rares, dyes, rare materials, etc are not affected by LS right now. It would only increase things people merch right now.

Just a other point of view I guess.

Quote:

/no sign

Lootscaling makes u farming in HM or in NM in a group.

People arnt gonna farm just for the comon things to drop, rare drops stays as
it is.
NO LS. Just means More fun during exploring.
The thing is .. most of the (NOT SIGNED) people are people who have
something against farming.

Farming on it self by players who like farming and wanna fill their GW time with
selling things and earn a lot of mony.. I dont see any harm in that.
If they have pleassure in doin that.. let them.

Me !! Im somebody who really like to explore with Hero and pets in NM.
As yesturday I roamt for almost 4 hours into the Jungle to ToA.. just for fun.
But with 4 hours wandering around, killing all things that comes in my way.
and even after all that my inventory was hardly full.

Is that what we want as a almost NOT farming PvE player. So dont say LS
is a good thing.
Ye its a good thing that they want to prevent farmers/bots who use there
things to sell it for real mony.
But don't compare PvE players. even players who like to farm couse they like
to sell and wanna get rich INGAME, with bots or farmers who farm for RM.

tmakinen · Mar 20, 2008, 09:14 AM // 09:14

Ok, there seems to be some confusion about what will happen if LS is lifted. Let's consider the effects one item at a time.

Fixed price items (from a merchant) will become effectively cheaper because you need less time to gather the given amount of money.

Collector weapons and armor will become effectively cheaper because you need less time to gather the collectable drops.

Common crafting materials will become effectively cheaper because the inflation of money is offset by greater production of materials.

Standard armor, weapons and consumables will become effectively cheaper (a combination of fixed price and common materials effects).

Rare crafting materials will become more expensive by absolute price but remain at the same or a bit lower value when counted by playing time needed to acquire them (the decrease being caused by expert salvage from common drops).

Prestige armor and other items requiring rare crafting materials will become more expensive by absolute price but less expensive by playing time needed to acquire them.

Vanity items will become more expensive by absolute price but remain at the same value when counted by playing time needed to acquire them.

People with lots of actual money will become relatively poorer in comparison to other players.

People with lots of ecto will stay as rich as before relative to other players.

Poor people will have better chances at becoming rich people.

All things considered, heck /signed.

tmakinen · Mar 20, 2008, 09:28 AM // 09:28

Also, I call BS on ANet's official party line of enforcing LS as means for preventing the gamer population from segregating into 'haves' and 'have-nots' *cough* mini polar bear *cough*

mr_groovy · Mar 20, 2008, 09:33 AM // 09:33

Quote: